By BetteAndTinaForever
PHOTOS
from the Event
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Part 2: Conversation with Ilene and Jennifer
New York Times Live is a very interesting live event which is held
year round at TheTimeCenter, including TimesTalks. “Life after
the L Word” with Ilene and Jennifer was a really exciting
event and I don’t regret even for a moment that I had to endure
the worst flight ever to get to New York so I could hear Jennifer
and Ilene talk to the fans.
The moderator, Kim Severson, is a staff writer for the dining section
of The New York Times and she was really great with her questions.
She at least was someone who watched the show and knew what she
was talking about.
Before I describe their conversation and the Q&A part, I’d
like to go back to the story about Jennifer practically inviting
me to go to New York. I said that even if it was a joke, I still
decided to go because no one in their right mind would say no to
Jennifer Beals. As it turned out, it wasn’t a joke because
when Jennifer came onto the stage and saw me in the audience, she
smiled and said, “I’m glad you made it.”
Later, after the event was over, I saw Kim the moderator leaving
the building and I approached her to thank her for a great evening
and she told me she’d heard about me from Jennifer. Jennifer
told Kim about me and said she hoped I’d make it to New York.
So you see, it wasn’t a joke and I’m really glad I went.
The audio for the entire talk will be posted in the podcast section
of TimesTalks (http://www.nytimes.whsites.net/talk/podcasts.html)
so I’ll only mention highlights of their conversation. It’s
not verbatim and might be out of order but I wrote this to the best
of my ability.
- At the beginning when the guests sat down, Kim said: “I
think I can speak for everyone here…Ilene, what the hell?”
(She was talking about season six, of course, and Ilene was laughing
while Jennifer made a gesture as if she was stabbing her. It was
funny). Jennifer said that she talked to Ilene about it because
the Disney part of Jennifer wanted the show to be a celebration
of friendship. It was very hard for her to tough through it but
she had to work with what Ilene gave her. Ilene has a dark side
according to Jennifer; and she did the finale to the best of her
ability but then she would go back to her trailer and go, “Why?
Why?” Jennifer was really upset over the ending.
- After that they talked about the movie because Ilene said it
was a possibility and Jennifer mentioned that the movie would be
great but she’ll only do it if it’s a celebratory, happy
movie about love and friendship. Ilene replied that there’s
a big amount of interest and support for the idea of the movie and
they all would like to do it.
- Ilene said that she would like nothing more than to work with
Jennifer again and they both mentioned that they are working on
a very exciting project together that in some way is a continuation
of The L Word. They wouldn’t reveal what it is but said we’ll
find out soon. (I think it might be related to the coming out stories
that they were going to collect on OurChart before it’s untimely
demise).
- Ilene always thought that she was a solitary writer until she
began doing The L Word but then she had a group of women who wouldn’t
let her be solitary. They were all socially communicative and it
turned out to be a great collaboration. Ilene was talking about
cast members, of course. She said that they would always go to her
with their ideas for stories or the characters and all the cast
members at some point were asking Ilene to change things in their
storylines.
Jennifer stepped in and said that she was the least demanding of
them all. She also said that though Ilene was the head writer, she
made it clear to the cast that the door was always open for them.
Jennifer joked then that she didn’t think Ilene could have
ever imagined the door would become this much of a revolving door
because everyone was constantly offering their own ideas. Ilene
added that there were moments when it would become a little wild
but it was also a really great collaboration. She said that Jennifer
collaborated with her the most and they constantly talked about
the storylines and character development. Often cast members would
come to Ilene with issues about their character being “out
of character” or just to express ideas for a story.
- Ilene said that after Queer as Folks was produced, she brought
up the subject of the lesbian show once again and this time she
got a green light. She told Showtime she was grateful for their
support and that they would get some interesting, significant and
well-known actresses who wouldn’t be afraid to play these
characters. They had a very short list for Bette because she was
deemed the main character and Jennifer Beals was on that list. Ilene
said that if they could get Jennifer they would be there already.
- Jennifer told her side of the story. She had just been offered
a show where she was going to play a prostitute. She met with the
executives from that show and then literally the same day she met
with Ilene and Larry and some others to talk about The L Word. After
that meeting Jennifer thought, “Hmm…do I want to be
a prostitute or a lesbian?” She saw the potential for the
show and Ilene had some great ideas. Then Jennifer met Rose Troche
who was so passionate, intelligent and very engaging; Jennifer realized
then that she would be a part of something very special and the
choice was easy.
- Kim mentioned Pam Grier and Ilene and Jennifer told a short story
of how Pam’s character in the original pilot was someone else.
Her name was also Kit but she wasn’t Bette’s sister,
she was this wacky sea captain. Jennifer was laughing really hard
at that, by the way. The Showtime executives loved the Pilot and
said that they would pick up the show but they were not sure if
Pam’s character was working. Ilene was glad but she also really
wanted to keep Pam on the show so they decided to create a character
just for her. In the original Pilot Jennifer and Pam did an incredible
scene together and they were so connected. Ilene looked at them
and decided to make them sisters.
- Laurel Holloman was cast opposite Jennifer after they narrowed
it down to two actresses who would play Tina. Both actresses had
already done their auditions and now they needed to see them with
Jennifer. Jennifer was working on a movie at the time and the actresses
went to her trailer and their conversations were filmed to see who
had more chemistry with Jennifer.
- Kim asked about the Laurel/Jennifer chemistry and their love
scenes. Jennifer laughed and said that she read somewhere on the
Internet that people have all these fantasies that they are lovers
in real life. (Everyone cheered and she just laughed). Jennifer
then said that in their love scenes they had to trust each other
completely. In the love scenes that they had, they were very intense,
especially the one at the end of season one and Jennifer said that
she trusts Laurel implicitly. They had each other’s backs,
literally. If they had a part of their body that they were not comfortable
with, they would always ask the other person to cover it.
- Jennifer also said that in the Pilot she was so focused on Bette’s
work that when it came time to do a love scene she was like, “Oh
my God, I’m a lesbian. What am I supposed to do? I’m
going to be this ugly hetero person who doesn’t have a clue…can
I google something?” Laurel asked her if she wanted maybe
a glass of wine and Jenifer thought it was just crazy, until she
realized that it was just a scene like any other scene. It wasn’t
just a love scene, it was a scene about two people who have been
disconnected and it was a way for them to reunite. They choreographed
everything and they actually had to re-shoot that scene. Jennifer
brought in a love scene that she liked and Laurel also brought one
that she liked, and they all shared ideas with Rose Troche who was
directing. In the end they all came up with something more substantial
and more specific that the one they had before (we call it The Pilot
Sex).
- Kim asked if they could share some juicy details from the set,
like arguments or fights…Jennifer said that they were like
family and it’s not like people didn’t argue but she
didn’t want to share because she considers them all a family.
Ilene said that they had some highs and some lows, and there were
moments of great collaboration and moments when someone would disagree
with something. Jennifer added that it was definitely a different
set from what she is used to. People always talked to one another
and if they had a problem with something, whether a scene or someone
else, it was addressed very quickly. Jennifer said that she felt
so “heard” on the set in a way she had never been before.
- Jennifer mentioned her film “Book of Eli” that just
finished filming and said it was an amazing experience. She attributed
it to the fact that the Hughes brothers are biracial and were raised
by a lesbian. Jennifer said that she felt lucky to have two such
great experiences. Kim added that the movie industry is not really
known for that kind of thing and Jennifer said that it has a very
monolithic, patriarchal structure where your voice often isn’t
heard as a woman.
- Kim made a comment that it was probably a challenge getting back
into the real world after The L Word. Jennifer joked, “Oh
yes, I talked to Kate Moennig recently and I said, ‘What would
you give to have just one more scene at the Planet, talking over
a cup of coffee?’”
- Kim asked Ilene if she ever started out to change the culture
in America because she did, in Kim’s opinion. Ilene said,
“I didn’t.” Kim, “Oh, you did.” And
then Kim asked if Ilene started out by saying, “This is my
life’s political work” or “I have an idea…”
Ilene replied that she didn’t start out by saying that she
was going to change culture or do something political, she started
out by saying that she wanted to tell some great stories and entertain
people and if it worked, then great. The show came out in the midst
of a cultural change and it was thrilling to be part of it but she
would never go on saying that that’s what she planned all
along.
- Jennifer said that she herself didn’t watch a lot of television
and she had no idea that The L Word was the first of its kind. When
they were dealing with the press, Ilene told Jennifer that it wasn’t
political but Jennifer thought that it was personal and, therefore,
political. She went on to say that if there was a young girl in
the middle of nowhere, with no access to a larger community and
this show helped her to see herself represented, then that was a
wonderful thing. Then Jennifer paused to collect herself because
she was almost on the verge of tears, “And if that’s
political then I felt very political.” She added that giving
someone an opportunity to be authentic, to be heard and to let others
hear your true voice is incredibly important.
- Kim asked Jennifer if, as a Yale graduate, she knew a lot about
LGBT issues or if being on the show had opened her eyes and Jennifer
said that the show had completely opened her eyes because she learned
what a “twink” and “dental dam” were…after
everyone stopped laughing she added that seriously, one important
thing that she learned was that we are all connected. The “gay
issues” are also women issues because homophobia is a form
of misogyny. She is more motivated now to speak out if she sees
something she doesn’t like. And Jennifer also said that she
can see now how all women are connected because we are either repressed
or repress ourselves and that’s codified in our culture.
- Kim asked Ilene how she developed a think skin because she was
criticized a lot. Even the lesbian community expressed dislike for:
the women being too pretty, too much sex, or not enough sex or Max
with beard who is a girl and other issues. Ilene replied that it
developed over time. In reality, if people are engaged on all levels,
when they get angry, when they are debating or even hurling something
at you, it means that the show was successful. If no one cared then
the show wouldn’t have been on the air for six years.
- Kim made a comment that it was a remarkable run and brought up
a few other shows, like Queer as Folk, Will and Grace, Ellen; and
all these shows were coming out when America was more comfortable
with gay characters. Ilene said that she certainly hadn’t
dreamed that some day she would do a show about lesbians and Ellen
DeGeneres definitely laid down some major stones, even though it
wasn’t necessarily good for her at that time. Now she owns
the world. In 2004 the world was also ready for a lesbian show.
- Ilene mentioned again that she first pitched it in 2001 when
she had written an article for a Los Angeles magazine about the
gay and lesbian baby boom. Her twins were two years old and she
looked around and saw lots and lots of lesbians in Los Angeles having
babies; it was a phenomena. She wanted to tell stories about it
and to make a show about it. She went to Showtime because she had
already worked with them on another project and she thought that
maybe they would be receptive to her ideas. She presented an article
and mentioned that she would like to do an ensemble drama about
lesbians. She was kindly rejected.
- Six months later Showtime bought the rights for Queer as Folk
and they put it on the air. And Ilene approached them and said,
“You have a show about gay men, what about lesbians?”
And they said, “You’re right.” The world was some
how opening the doors for them to tell their stories. And now, with
it finished, it will be harder to produce another show like this.
Economic reasons are part of it but also it’s still harder
to sell a project with a gay character.
- Kim replied that it seems weird that there are hardly any gay
characters on television. Ilene said that it’s very sad. Jennifer
and she actually talk about it all the time because they had believed
that after The L Word ended, there would be many shows like it.
She finds it very sad that we find ourselves in a cultural desert
with no representation of our lives in the culture.
- The next subject that Kim brought up involved the social issues
that the show tackled that were not mainly LGBT issues like substance
abuse, race, adoption, breast cancer. Ilene said that they were
using many issues that one could face in life because they wanted
to deliver a message that our lives are just like the lives of everyone
else, we are all dealing with the same things, no matter if we are
gay or straight.
- Biracial issues were addressed and Jennifer said that originally
Bette was written as white. During their first reading Jennifer
said to Ilene that she wanted to be represented as a biracial lesbian
and Ilene was very open to it.
- Next question was to name a few scenes or episodes that they
were especially proud of. Ilene said that she couldn’t really
do it but she confessed being a Bette fan and loving all the scenes
when Bette was going on a rant. Jennifer said that one of her favorite
scenes was the Bette and Tina fight/love scene at the end of season
one. It was a very complicated and intense scene. Tony Goldwyn,
who directed that episode, just let the cameras roll and they just
kept doing that scene over and over. It was very exhausting but
Jennifer felt that she had accomplished something important at the
end. She was very proud of what they brought to that scene.
- Kim asked if Jennifer is a different actor now having been on
The L Word and her reply was that she did change and become more
vocal. She is more confident in expressing her opinions when she
wants to understand the direction and development of her characters.
Working on The L Word was an amazing experience, especially working
with different directors, who were predominantly feature film or
independent film directors. They were all very passionate about
their work and involved in the re-writing process. Ilene added that
it was a very unique situation because each episode was like a mini-movie.
- Kim mentioned again that it was probably hard for Ilene to give
up some control and Ilene replied that she could be a control freak
but she also liked the collaborative process because it was better
to have people sharing their ideas about the storylines and Ilene
always welcomed their input. She also admitted that often the ideas
of others were much better than her original idea.
- Next subject of conversation was about things that Ilene regretted
and Kim brought up one of the things that fans were always vocal
about, killing Dana Fairbanks. Ilene said right away, “I’d
like to rephrase it…I didn’t kill Dana Fairbanks. Dana
got sick.” She then said that part of the fan’s anger
was based on the fact that she killed a lesbian and Ilene’s
reply always was, “I’m sorry but lesbians do die.”
She also mentioned that during season one and two she was attacked
for making Jenny Jewish. Ilene added that it was another thing that
happened because of the actress, because Mia is Jewish and she suggested
making Jenny Jewish, as well. Then Jenny turned crazy and fans were
angry at Ilene for making a Jewish character crazy.
- Kim then brought up the question of Jenny being based on Ilene.
Ilene replied that in the first season Jenny and Bette were two
characters who were loosely based on her. Jenny presented her coming
out experience, being a writer and Jewish. Bette represented her
more mature experiences, being a career woman who tried to start
a family, tried to keep a relationship working while having a very
busy and big career. So, many of Ilene issues were reflected in
these two characters. Over the seasons, the characters became so
much themselves that Ilene no longer felt any kind of proprietary
relationship with them. Ilene also added that at different moments
she could relate to all the characters, just as the audience did.
- Kim then asked Jennifer about Bette and her development. She
asked that since Jennifer is a photographer and has an aesthetic
sense, was she using it when she portrayed Bette or was all of it
given to her. Jennifer replied that everything was completely given
to her. She knew nothing about painting and learned a lot while
doing the show. Kim mentioned that she heard that the character
of Bette was based on a friend of Ilene’s who has a gallery.
Ilene said that she wouldn’t use word “based on”
but there was a mutual friend who became an inspiration for Bette
and helped them with some ideas about being an art museum director.
- The next subject was clothes for the show. Jennifer said she
misses clothes from the show the most. Cynthia, their costume designer,
was extraordinary and she got to know everyone’s taste and
style and always listened to their input about the clothes that
they wanted to wear. Jennifer added that she really misses her cufflinks.
At the end of each season all the cast members were allowed to buy
at a bargain price any part of their wardrobe they wanted, including
clothes other characters were wearing. Sometimes there was a frenzy
at the wardrobe room because everyone would be hiding things that
they wanted. (Jennifer and Ilene were really funny during that sequence).
- The next subject was about the guest stars. Kim asked how they
managed to get so many tremendous stars to appear and if any of
the storylines were written for a specific guest. Ilene said that
she attributes it to the fact that there are so few parts for women
that are interesting and different, in which a woman’s character
isn’t just part of the orbit of a man’s story. Another
factor was that that a lot of actresses were just excited about
being part of the show that talks about women in an interesting
and self-determined way. Jennifer added that in the movie industry
there’s often this old Victorian notion that a woman’s
world is all about love and it’s just an episode in their
life. She was doing a movie where her character brought up an affair
in the middle of a crisis, asking her male partner if anyone knew
about their affair. Her partner replied, “Oh, we have bigger
issues now because we have to save the world.” And Jennifer
said that she told the director that she couldn’t say that
and she suggested, “Hey, why don’t you give the line
to him, and I’ll say, ‘We have bigger issues’.”
(This statement was met with a lot of applause and laughter.)
- They continued talking about the guest stars and Kim mentioned
Cybill Shepherd. Ilene said that usually they got calls from people
who wanted to be on the show. She knew that Cybill wanted to be
on The L Word and when they came up with the idea of Phyllis, Cybill
was the first actress that they thought of for that role. Marlee
Matlin was also the one who knew a lot of people and she would come
to Ilene with new names of people who wanted to be a part of the
show. Often agents or casting directors would call her.
- They only had a few minutes left before the Q&A and Kim asked
about webisodes as an alternative avenue for delivering the show.
Ilene explained that when they first went on the air, the web was
relatively new in its relationship to television. In the beginning
Ilene knew about people posting things online but she thought she
didn’t have to listen to the fans.
- By the time the second season was out, she realized that she
was dead wrong and that she needed to pay attention. She also realized
that The L Word fans were a huge global community who connected
on the Internet because it was a place for them to talk about the
show and their lives. There had never been content like this before
for lesbians and it was very important. OurChart was a response
to that need as they created an on-line community for fans to gather
and connect. OurChart didn’t work out because they had to
do it with CBS and the big corporate structure made it impossible
for them to grow the site in the way they wanted to.
- Showtime owns the L Word characters but they are very generous
in letting Ilene continue their lives on the Internet and they are
also very supportive of The L Word movie. This was when Jennifer
said once again that she would only do it if Ilene would abandon
her dark site and make a happy movie. Ilene basically promised that
she will do a movie about love, romance and friendship…and
she mentioned a wedding!
- More on webisodes and specific content for the web. Jennifer
said that doing stuff for the web feels like a continuation of the
storytelling process because for her, the story is paramount. And
what was so exciting about The L Word, was that the stories they
told encouraged other people within the community and outside the
community to tell their own stories to one another. Jennifer was
really disappointed when OurChart folded.
- She also said that she can’t read things on the Internet
because she gets really upset. She read one comment when someone
didn’t like her short hair and called her a soccer mom. But
there were also moments that she really liked, like when she did
a triathlon in September. She did it as a way to raise money for
various charities, and also as a way to make sure she wouldn't quit.
She read some of the comments on OurChart where people were so encouraging
and so sweet and helped her a lot when she was doing the race.
- Ilene also mentioned a series of interviews that Jennifer did
with Tobias Wolff during the presidential campaign. It was before
Obama got the nomination, and it was an incredible dialogue that
really brought a lot of people into the conversation. Jennifer agreed
and said that she was able to ask him questions that the fans asked
on OurChart and it was a great way for her to facilitate their conversation.
The conversation with Ilene and Jennifer lasted almost an hour
and it was time now for questions from the audience. I didn’t
ask any because I just had a short interview with Jennifer and Ilene
at the GLAAD Awards and I wanted to hear what other fans wanted
to know about. And honestly, I wanted to just enjoy my time and
watch Jennifer answering the questions. The Q&A
is coming soon.
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