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| RANDOM THOUGHTS 2 |
Written by pancha305
Tina was always meant to be with men. I think that was Ilene Chiken's plan before the debut of S1. And I'm pretty sure she didn't tell this to Laurel Holloman or Jennifer Beals.
Why do I think this? Well, it's based on a Laurel Holloman interview the first season. She said that when she took the role, she had worked out a back story for Tina..that Tina had come out of the closet in college. Laurel apparently works hard to understand her character which is only one of the reasons I have such respect for the actress. That said..
When Laurel shared her back story with Ilene, she was told that Tina had NEVER been with a woman before Bette---that she had only been with men. When the gang, minus Bette, was in Palm Springs during S1, Tina revealed this story. Bette was her first woman--her first, last and always, I believe she said.
At the time, it never occurred to me that IC's ultimate plan was to put Tina with men. I thought this Tina flashback was just an indicator of how quickly and completely she fell in love with Bette. Boy, was I a sap! Then S3 started and I flashed back to the Holloman interview.
I thought in S3 that Bette and Tina would have relationship problems, parenting problems, adoption problems--perfectly natural and dramatic. But it never dawned on me until S3 that that Tina would return to men and that the only "forever" with Bette and Tina would be their split.
So I believe that the plan, from the beginning, was to have Tina "go back" to men. She isn't like the other gay women of LWord in her involvement with men and very limited involvement with women. She was clearly given the "nothing-but-men back story" to move her back to men.
And now in episode 3.9, Tina has done exactly this with her sexual encounter. We shouldn't be surprised that a Chiken created a HENry.
I'm actually very nervous about the season that's about the air.. (Laurel Holloman at the LWord Convention in the UK in November 2005) Now we all know why Holloman was so nervous. She had probably filmed all of the episodes except the last two and she knew about Tina's sexual involvement with a man. I don't think Holloman likes this, but she has to act the script she's handed.
There was another Holloman quote from the LWord UK interview that could suggest Tina's return to men:
What's really going to happen third season, or what I think will be interesting, is to see where Tina is. I think Ilene set her up so that once she has the baby, she feels great and it's all going to come together for her. What you see is the circle
becoming more complete. [emphasis mine]
This Holloman quote may mean that Tina started with men, detoured through Bette and Helena, and has now returned to men. Circle complete.
I think IC clearly wanted to explore back-to-men story line and who else could she use but Tina? Most of the characters on LWord are pretty clearly lesbian so they would not have been good choices.
Alice? Well, Alice was positioned as a bisexual at the beginning of the series, but that wasn't explored much. Maybe Alice was bi-sexual for "diversity." If Alice ended up with a man, the viewers wouldn't be happy, but she was, after all, a self-admitted bisexual and she wasn't involved with anyone but Dana, briefly.
Helena? She seems pretty gay, but her character has undergone an unbelievable transformation between S2 and S3. I keep watching the Good Helena a little nervously because I think at some point she will start to moan and groan and the Bad Helena will explode out of her chest like one of the monsters in Alien. If she can become the Good Helena, anything can happen.
Shane? Now you're saying that this is impossible. But wait....... One could argue that other characters have made such completely unbelievable personality changes in S3 that we shouldn't be surprised if Shane becomes a heterosexual and runs off with Mark.
This begs the question, "Why?" IC seems to have two stock answers for her weird story lines. "It's my choice." and "We all know real life situations where this has happened."
"It's my choice." Well, yes, it is, Ilene. I have long thought, however, that artists and entertainers have to keep the audience in mind to a certain extent. IC clearly doesn't agree with this.
I sigh.
"We all know real life situations where this has happened." Well, yes, we do, Ilene. There was this "real life" situation in Florida with a lesbian serial killer. Are we to see this story on LWord?
I shudder.
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2006-03-08, 22:58:03 PM
From: Seahurst
Comments: Always great to read your thoughts Pancha. I have to admit that I stopped watching the show about three weeks ago. I have more respect for myself and my community to continue to watch IC's twisted version of it. Thanks for sharing!!
2006-03-08, 23:08:37 PM
From: ecstasythrumusic
Comments: Sea I totally argree with you even though for me I have only recently embraced my sexuality. Pancha I agree with what you have written and your opinion.I have a deep repect for Laurel and Jennifer as actresses and as women.Bette and Tina will always be the two tv characters that helped me see that I could be gay and even happy even if they won't be happy together.
2006-03-09, 01:38:25 AM
From: faten
Comments: Actually, Tina's exact words in the S1 episode "Looking back" were: "Yep, Bette was my first, last and forever." Tina: "Call it fate."Alice: "Call it the oldest trick in the book." LOL
2006-03-09, 02:17:46 AM
From: AmandaMG
Comments: IC says its her choice... well its our choice and when we all get good and fed up... which is real soon... and say fuck you IC and your story... and wait for another wrtter to come forward and write a show that the fans want to see... the ice is broken... and if IC thinks no one else will come forward... she should think again...so IC its OUR CHOICE... and we all will just change the channel... and SHOWTIME will cancel you...
2006-03-09, 07:57:27 AM
From: pancha305
Comments: Agree that S3 is such a disservice to the LCommunity. And good point, Amanda, it is also our choice. I came back to watching because I am now fascinated with how bad it can be. But I'm not buying the S3 DVD and things I think Showtime holds dear.
2006-03-09, 11:07:15 AM
From: BetteAndTinaForever
Comments: hey pancha...i see your point but i stil have hope that it's only a phase for tina...one reason is: everybody admited (inlcuding IC and cast director) that JB and LH have a chemistry that is purely magic; 2 reason, if Tina choses Henry and moves with him to his place, how Tina is going to fit in with the girls? and i hope they don't intend to write tina off because Laurel was really excited about season 4...maybe full circle for her means that she has to fall hard in order for her to realize that after all her searching it was Bette all along that she wants...i don't know, it's probably wishful thinking on my part, but then inded season 3 is a waste of a perfect chemistry between actors and characters
2006-03-09, 11:26:43 AM
From: pancha305
Comments: B&TForever - Your optimism is boundless and your e-name says it all.
2006-03-09, 12:00:53 PM
From: Banjo
Comments: Pancha - I too believe that IC had this plan in mind for Tina all along. I don't think she projected the depth of the chemistry between thes JB and LH and I don't think she projected how deeply the fans would fall for this couple and root for them. It saddens me that so far IC is tto hard-headed to leave her initial plan behind and capitalize on Tina and Bette staying a couple. It can never be now - the magic is gone for me even if they bring them back together in season 4. LH is so devoted to this show and if her charcter stays hetero during season 4, it will be such a waste of talent because the bulk of the fans will still love her but in my opinion, never like they did originally when they so identified with the character she played for them.
2006-03-09, 13:06:22 PM
From: dedpreztourist
Comments: Certainly a plausible theory, but I have to admit I hope you're wrong. I too have stopped watching, not so much because of the men angle per se, but because I can't stand it that IC's brilliant mind saw fit to turn Tina, who I always believed brought the warmth to the show, into a cold-hearted, well, you know. I adore Laurel because she's always been so upfront about her support for the community and her enthusiasm for portraying part of an alternative family. I can't fathom that she ever wanted that portrayal to turn out like this and I can't help but think that this gawdawful storyline tears her up at least as much as it does us. IC had such a great deal with two actresses who made us and, I suspect, themselves believe that these characters truly loved each other. It could have been such a service to our community. Now it's just a waste. What a terrible shame.
2006-03-09, 13:06:23 PM
From: strtgirl1
Comments: pancha305, first off you are a fantastic writer. I look forward to your posts, keep them coming please, as far as your editorial, I am sure you are right about IC plan with Tina. The only thing is, Will she continue this path,because she can, Or does she really want a show the viewers want to see. Onkly time or ego will tell. I myself still torture myself with watching, Cause I really like all the actresses on the show. Laurel & Bette are my favorite, but I kinda think they are screwwing all of them up. I mean come on, Dana's going to die, Alice is with a wierdo Helena is Pollyanna shane whats up with her & Carmen anyway? Carmen, has reason to be upset, Tina, I think she is a great actress to play this part, they have handed her, Bette come on girl Bring on the power suits. Thanks Pancha
2006-03-09, 13:47:30 PM
From: Grlinterupted
Comments: Well I am glad I am not the only one who is feeling a bit cheated this season. I definately fell in love with B&T. Its all just so sad lately.I think everyone changed way to quickly.Even if things go up from here its like a bad relationship that you never forget.In saying all of this I still think the fans are here to stay because once these characters and their stories grab hold of you its to hard to walk away. It feels to real and thats why I think everyone is so upset. We are all going through this together in a way.
2006-03-09, 17:29:49 PM
From: pancha305
Comments: LH is very devoted to the show and that has impressed me a great deal. What a fine woman she must be. I agree that we have been cheated by the strange characters and story lines of this season. I suppose we will endlessly try to figure out what IC was thinking. She must be an angry, bitter, insecure woman. When I first started following this show, I made it a point to read about IC and read interviews. I was struck then by the fact that she didn't seem to show warmth or humor. And that bothered me a lot. Still does. BUT I, too, hope my analysis is wrong...that when Tina makes the full circle that she is back with Bette.
2006-03-09, 20:13:56 PM
From: maybe
Comments: Just a thought from a straight girl who GOT HOOKED on this show because my best friend is gay and until this Season, the character development and evolving relationships were so authentic. The missing 6 months are more annoying than the Bobby Ewing Dream Crap Dallas offered up. It just doesn't add up with what we were left believing at the end of S2 where Bette & Tina were concerned-Especially with that "Near Death" experience in labor. Not that the 5 minute "all is forgotten" scene was terribly authentic. Anyway, I think/hope Tina will end up with Bette because: she is randomly targeting her male conquests without even knowing them and that just doesn't set with how Tina has been portrayed.No adult changes that much unless they suddenly need a prescription for lithium. When Bette cheated on her she kept saying that "it was just sex no emotional connection" and I thought to myself if I fell in love with a woman and was denounced by all that knew me-never any family references beyond the "boyfriend" it's like she was hatched-I'd be all sorts of messed up and REALLY angry.I mean the "just sex" excuse isn't something I think Tina thought she'd EVER hear out of the Person she wanted to spend her life with because "He" is a woman. Everything about the current B&T situation screams Hetero-passive-aggresive couple to me.Tina's "cut her off" because she's still angry and there's never been any satisfactory resolution about the affair.(I'm assuming the mystery months are just as much of a mystery to them) I can see why this is an afront to the Lesbian community because as my best friend always says "you love who you love and the package that somes with it is just coincidence" I'm hoping that Tina comes to the realization that she's not being true to herself-similar to the way Bette did throughout S2. As a straight person, I have always come away from this show feeling that we are basically all the same people with the same problems. Ultimately I hope the writer's keep this couple together because they believe enough of us heteros get the message. Beyond that,this is a landmark show and it would be a betrayal to the lesbian community to think that Ross & Rachel could figure it out better than these two friends. Sorry so long.
2006-03-10, 05:50:25 AM
From: BettePorterFanxo
Comments: I think I remember hearing or reading about the L word being based on her life and her friend's. Is this what has happend in her life?
2006-03-10, 09:27:12 AM
From: vam
Comments: "And if people have a complaint or don't like the character, trust me, it's the character or the way it's written, or the way we're doing it, it's not her. Because she's playing the character as we write it." Not an Ilene Chaiken quote, but taken from an old interview with David E. Kelley - and obviously he's talking about Calista Flockhart. However, it so fits for Laurel in Season 3. I think she's doing a great job - and from what she said at the London convention, I don't think her heart can have been in it this year. Must have been hard to turn in for work each day and deal with all this shit, when I bet she'd rather have been at home with Lola (hard also for Jennifer to play her part, when I'm sure she just wanted to remain calm and focussed and look forward to the arrival of her baby). However, the shit has hit the fan, and for once I'm grateful that all will have been revealed before it's aired in the UK and at least the shock-horror element will have gone by the time I get to see it play out. I suspect IC is still very bitter about the break up of her "marriage" and that could explain all the Tina (Miggi)character assassination this season. I certainly wouldn't want to get on IC's bad side as she does seem to pack a punch against anyone who goes off message (think Katrina & Erin). Thanks Pancha for all your words and I'll keep reading as long as you keep writing. (Seahurst - please don't stop writing, even if you can't bear to watch.)
2006-03-10, 09:47:59 AM
From: Van
Comments: IC has made many comments about B & T, one in particular stands out she said "B & T belong together" Then JB said ....that after all the things that have transpired between them, she does not see them getting back together. LH said that ...she still believes in love, infact both JB & LH have asked IC to stop al the fighting between them, that they prefer their characters remain inlove, that it;s hard on them to act in this way. IC could have gotten Jenny hooked up with some man, instead of helping to justify some male egos that it's a good F--k that a so called lesbian needs to know she's into men. I'll admit that after watching s1 I was totally hooked, then s2 I was still captivated, mainly because I was longing for B & T to reconcile, after all the drama unfolded. Now with S3 it's like the show has taken a whole different angle on B & T, and it makes no absolutely no sense, other than maybe T is still angry at B and this is her way of making B pay..."shrugs" who knows!!!!!!!! Anyway you'll still find me putting myself through the torture of watching the season out, but as for next season, therein lies a huge question mark. I've said it once before......Queer as Folk has the edge on The L Word, they had some of the same story lines, but there creators DID NOT drag out the story lines for so long. And why did she make B & T into this amazing couple to have them separate....therein lies another person on earth who tries to crush, peoples hopes and dreams of finding, having a lasting, loving, committed relationship, filled with open and honest communication. Season 4 has got to have really great story lines or else I doubt there will be a s5. And then to top it all off two of the many great actresses on the show will not be back and this just sucks BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!!! I sit here wondering if JB and LH gets tired of the story lines if they too may leave...then that WOULD DEFINITELY BE IT FOR IC, CAUSE NO ONE AND I MEAN NO ONE CAN EVER CARRY OFF THE CHEMISTRY THAT LH & JB HAVE!!!!!!!!!
2006-03-10, 10:39:42 AM
From: pancha305
Comments: maybe - Jennifer Beals has made somewhat the same comments about gays as you. She said that she has never understood why people feel threatened by gay marriage, for example. Apparently the hardest part of this role for her was to learn about art since that was Bette's field. But playing one half of a gay couple wasn't a problem. "I understand love and attraction," she said. One straight gal who posts on MBs says that her husband was so disappointed in Tina's having sex with Henry that he left the room so he didn't have to watch that scene. I was very interested in your comments. Thanks.
2006-03-10, 11:00:08 AM
From: pancha305
Comments: IC's background - I don't know if her breakup with her partner of 15-20 years was like B&T. Her bio? I seem to recall that she was involved with men as a young woman, but then found her sexuality with women. She and her partner have twin daughters and her partner was the birth mom. I have read that Jenny is the young Ilene and Bette the more mature Ilene, but don't know if that's true.JB and LH - I get the impression that neither is happy with the story line that has broken up B&T and have talked to Ilene about it. I suspect, however, that they will stay with the show as long as it lasts. Why? It's a good-paying job which allows them to stay in one place for a good part of the year. I think both women find that easier for them and their families. JB has a house in Vancouver so it's extra convenient for her. And if the story line is bad...well, both women have been in some bad movies.
2006-03-10, 11:57:38 AM
From: funnyone
Comments: As always Pancha, you put forth a intelligent, well reasoned, and concise package. My only quibble is that you may be giving Chaiken too much credit on the thinking/planning end of things. You gave the example of Helena's transformation between seasons 2 and 3, but she is hardly the only one to have been morphed into something unrecognizable. Intelligent, hard charging, hard headed Bette seems to have developed a serious calcium deficiency that's affected both her skull and spine. She seems to have gone a little soft in the brain, too. Conversely, confused, scared Jenny seems to be the dominant personality in her relationship with Moira/Max (did I say something about transformations? Let's hope the newly created adolescent boy doesn't have stinky feet.) Alice became pathetic all for the lose of someone with whom their entire time together was spent pretending to be other people. That being the case, I've never understood what exactly the lose amounted to, nor why she got so broken up. At least with a serious disease and difficult treatment you can begin to understand why goofy Dana has become a bitch. Even Shane hasn't been completely spared, but so far her transformation was brief and superficial: being stuck in a party dress and heels. Yes, we've all seen people cross back and forth over the gender line in pursuit of lovers, we've all seen people behave badly within relationships. But I've never encountered characters being so radically changed. What has been depicted for us by IC & Co. is so extreme that it cannot be considered growth. I have heard the the alien abduction theory put forth, which makes a shitload more sense that what Chaiken's put forth.
2006-03-12, 01:25:52 AM
From: honda90
Comments: I agree with funnyone about giving IC too much credit...She has been in the "business" for how long, and really what has she done outside of TLW that has been of any significance?? Pls let me know...After the success of S1 and especially the pilot I think the showtime execs gave her free reign/blank cheque with this show and she has ran with it. There does not seem to be any clear direction from one season to the next which would indicate to me that she is flying by the seat of her pants with direction, giving into whatever she may be feeling at the time, and also being extremely pissed off at both LH and JB for getting pregnant. And however far off that sounds I can see her being totally pissed at JB because there was no way to write that into the season. So therefore she is going to punish her 2 main characters..Whatever happened to the thought about keeping B/T together and building on what the execs first cinched on...the commentary that they wanted to see more of the chemistry between B/T and that's what sold showtime on it's potential...the show is not benifiting from the varied guest directors or newbie writers that IC has touted all along, again to support my theory that IC really has no longterm talent, she has a problem with execution...it's her idea and she must be given full credit but then give it over to the professionals to nuture and take care of this show. So much damage has been done to the fan base that it's going to hurt showtime where it counts...DVD sales, subscriptions etc...I would bet a vast majority of people can't wait til this season is over. As far as a S4...really are we the lucky ones??? I thought so before, but now it's just another opportunity for IC to stick us with the hot poker!!! Will JB/LH be back, I'd guess yes but only if they had to otherwise they'd be walking I bet. As for a S5...I doubt it, with the proper people this whole concept could have been taken to 5,6 maybe more seasons. There is a lot of chemistry between all the actors and so much rich potential for stories that it could have happened...To look honestly at this show...no one is happy, before we had sharmen at least, now there isn't anywone...IC take your bow and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out...
2006-03-12, 02:04:26 AM
From: penguined
Comments: Writers for shows like the L-word have to strike the difficult balance between representing minority groups respectfully without falling into insipid political correctness. That being said, I think- considering all the debate about this show, and others that feature (or unfortunately more often, conspicously exclude) charecters with diverse gender, race, and class identities- that there has been a marked absence in discussion about the representation of (dis)ability. Why is it that when members of this group are included (far more rarely than minorities in any of the aforementioned categories), women with disabilities are usually either pathetic victims, or in the case of the adoption caseworker in the L-word, and Keri Weaver on ER, embittered, and unempathetic? From my experience, as a queer woman with a disability, members of both of these communities have a lot in common, and are much more likely to be mutually supportive than obstructive to each's causes. Why then, is the only person with a disability ever to be seen on the L-word cast as a somewhat homophobic, uptight, conservative villain. Obviously such women do exist, but unless an array of persons with disabilities are portrayed (allowing for a spectrum of personalities) I think that it is disapointing that the 'token' person with a disability is so often also a bitter bitch.
2006-03-13, 21:00:52 PM
From: ut
Comments: I just don't know why IC want to make so much drama on the show and make the fans sad and fan attack the actress and everything go wrong, well she better fix the show and characters and write it right or she will lose all the fans and her show or whatever its. Anyway what a crazy writer "sigh" lol!
2006-03-13, 21:18:00 PM
From: ut
Comments: Oh I forgot to say that I don't know Im going to buy the DVD of S3 beacuse of dramas on the show and I don't like drama, so still thinking about this time!
2006-03-14, 20:58:59 PM
From: Lgirl87
Comments: Although I haven't watched S3(Hell I haven't even watched S2, except for the clips)I've read the summary of the chapters and...I don't know about you girls, but I think(or at least I really REALLY hope) that Ilene's plan is something like no matter all the 'detours' -detours being Hellena,Josh, Henry and God knows who else-the love she and Bette share deeply inside of them will prevail and they will stay together...I'm still with my fingers crossed for this ending, that these two will find their way back together.
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