 |
FAN EDITORIAL DISCLAIMERS
Editorial Disclaimer; L-Word.com is not affiliated with Showtime Inc. and no connection is expressed or implied. The editorial opinions are those of the author and do not represent the views of L-word.com and/or Showtime Inc. “The L Word TV Series” are registered trademarks of the Showtime Inc.
Content Disclaimer; This Web site is to be read with the understanding that the information presented is from many varied sources from which there can be no warranty or responsibility by the publisher with regard to accuracy or completeness. While every effort is made to ensure correctness, L-Word.com is not responsible for any erroneous information that appears on this Web site. All information presented herein is subject to change and debate and should be so treated. L-Word.com do not accept any responsibility for loss or damage suffered by any person or body relying directly or indirectly on any information contained within this site. |
|
| >> BEWARE; THIS ARTICLE MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS! <<
|
| CALL 911 - IT'S BETTE AND TINA! |
Written by Lone
Okay, so what is actually going on with these two? Spending the last week processing the entire Bette/Tina storyline, I have finally decided that I could not keep my mouth shut any more. The one thing that convinced me to speak up was all the trashing of the Tina-character and if that was not enough the trashing of the lovely Laurel Holloman. I understand what Tina is less popular right now but I really recent the idea that it is okay to trash the actress portraying the character. Laurel's performance and her constant eye roll do not justify down right trashing! To you out there(you know who you are): Tina and Laurel are two different individuals – and one of them is actually fictional!
L-word.com note: There is no bashing of Laurel Holloman on our discussion board. We discourage attacking actors because of their characters. See the Meredith McGeachie interview to read about how personal attacks affect the actors.
That being said – and while I still have your attention – I want to point out some other observations I have made in the past few weeks. If we look back at season one in which Bette and Tina had similar issues in connecting with each other (sexually), many have criticized season three for being too repetitive of that storyline. Furthermore, the fact that Tina is not really being the nicest person right about now, also seems to distract people from enjoying the show. Granted there are a lot of things we would like to change about The L Word, and I will not get into all of them here but one of the things we have lacked throughout the series has been realism. So, what is my point? Simply this: the one thing you cannot criticize the Bette/Tina storyline for is lack of realism. With all the shit they have been through so far, does it not seem more realistic that they cannot work it out and eventually go their separate ways? Do not get me wrong, I am all for Bette and Tina staying together, and I still want that – but only if it is actually believable.
As I mentioned in the beginning, I understand why people resent Tina for not reaching out to Bette when she tries to re-connect with Tina, and I too find it hard to watch. My entire body wrenches every time they have a scene together, that is how awkward it is! Having a baby can be hard enough but when you do not have support from home, you go elsewhere to find it – in Tina's case she goes back to men. I think we have to wait it out and hopefully, yes, Bette and Tina will live happily ever after but at least for now let us give Tina a break and not criticize her until we have legitimate reasons for doing so. Bette is not exactly an innocent party.. remember Candace?
Go Back to Fan Editorials Archive Pages
|
Comments:
 Leave Comment (pop up window)
2006-02-02, 12:30:15 PM
From: pancha305
Comments: Yes, I remember Candace. But more importantly, Tina remembers Candace and remembers and remembers and remembers and remembers...and punishes. If she can't forgive Bette for that, then break it off.
2006-02-02, 18:42:24 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: well we gotta remember she wasn't ingrained into beig gay.. she was seduced.. and i guess that seductive power is wearing off
2006-02-02, 18:42:58 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: remember candice....!i remember tina flauting helena in bette's face...
2006-02-02, 18:45:54 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Would you be able to just forgive. I think the struggle makes it much more real. I saw this happen to my best friend and he and his boyfriend couldn't make it work. Cheating is a big betrayal and the trust isn't just going to come back. Who could just like a light switch, shut that memory off?
2006-02-02, 19:01:48 PM
From: bette_tina_forever
Comments: ok i totally agree with you on trashing lorrel...shes amazing and i love her and her eye rool lol ....but tina yeahh...i dont want to trash her but im not ahppy with her...and yes well remember candice and you know bette was wrong but she would do anything just so tina would be happy even if it killed her herself so if it will make tina happy by being with a man im sure bette will continue to support and love her even though it might casue her to vomit and die....i think bette has made up for her infedelity numerous amounts of times...call me niave but thats just my oppion..
2006-02-02, 19:12:14 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: hola!!when we talk ill about Tina,we mean the character,we all love Laurel but are hating tina coz she is gone way too far,L Word is fictional so dont take it personal,i feel really sorry for Bette because even when she was cheating with candace she could atleast offer a kiss or some warmth to tina,thats why i am not in love with Tina right now,she should just back off....
2006-02-02, 19:42:48 PM
From: pattifloatn
Comments: I myself love Lauel Holloman and only hope that the show will put Bette and Tina back together. I think what is driving people crazy is that it is a man that she is interested in. At least get a cute guy for her to go after. I know a lot of cuties who even I would turn my head for (and follow). Now back to Tina, I don't think she knows what she wants. I think deep in her heart that she loves Bette, but can't get over all the hurt from the past. I also think that she wants the old Bette back in some form, but does not know how to get HER Bette back. Laurel has done a wonderful job in making us angry over what is going on between Tina and Bette. Hopefully, she can continue and reconnect with the fans but also Bette. I have had a lot of experience with this because I love General Hospital (Daytime Soap). Thank you for reminding most of us that Laurel is a wonderful actress and from I hear a wonderful woman.
2006-02-02, 20:35:41 PM
From: fantasymay
Comments: right now i am loving tina right now because their characters have shifted and tina is now bringing home the money,but with a little aditude. sooner or later she will come off that cloud whenbette gets her confidence back .but i never heard bette complain about moneywhen she was working so whats up t cutbette some slack she was fired by your then girlfriend helena do u remember that because i do.
2006-02-02, 21:49:56 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: what bothers me most is that tina has no love or support or even respect for bette...just don't know what she wants...
2006-02-02, 22:10:57 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: ok lets just get this "straight". bette cheating with candace, she owes one to tina. tina's fling with helena, i have to give one to bette. ok, tina 1, bette 1, they are even! now please kiss and make up! don't hold grudges about things in the past, other wise you forget to live the present!
2006-02-02, 23:49:03 PM
From: klab1972
Comments: Tina's pushing Bette away in the first place is what caused Bette to turn to someone else (just in my opinion). I can see how Tina might not be able to forgive her...but then she also shouldn't have acted like she did when she moved back into the house. Maybe she is turned off by the weaker side of Bette, but cutting her down at every turn isn't going to help Bette regain her confidence and the strength that she once had. I know if my professional life was a disaster and then I had to be made to feel so small at home I would be totally insecure and depressed all around.
2006-02-03, 00:37:32 AM
From: emma2005
Comments: Thank you for writing what I've been thinking for two days. Its one thing to be upset with the character because it appears everyones favorite (Bette) isn't happy, but to take it out on the actress really is going to far. Laurel Holloman is a fantastic actress, and she and Jennifer Beals are the reason that everyone fell in love with Bette and Tina as a couple. And now because of the S3 s/l, Laurel is a terrible actress, and Laurel shows no emotion when she's acting and Laurel can't do this. And yet these same people trashing Laurel were in awe of her during the scene in S1
2006-02-03, 00:57:10 AM
From: BetteAndTinaForever
Comments: as a die-hard B&T fan i can say that their storyline this season pains me greatly, and i do understand that there should be drama, even though they could have plenty of it without making tina going back to men (money, adoption, trying to forgive candace affair and life with helena...it's plenty)...IC wanted them to have more and more drama...okay, nothing we can do but i can say this, the only things that makes me watch B&T painful storyline IS Laurel and Jennifer's acting...they are doing a great job with the material that was given to them, especially knowing that both of them are TiBetters as well...so whoever trashing actresses are immature people...i don't like where the storyline is going but i will watch for Laurel and Jennifer, because they are both superb
2006-02-03, 02:05:56 AM
From: srj.1
Comments: if you love or hate the person this just means that the actors are doing a damn good job at their parts
2006-02-03, 05:43:48 AM
From: LARAWEAVE
Comments: i totally agree with what you said about not verbally bashing the actors.laurel holloman must be doing her job really well if people are giving her such a hard time, but let's face it, the woman is amazing and i for one will kick anyone's ass who says otherwise.if anyone needs to be slated for this recent upset it's that bloody ilene woman!!! peace out ash.x.x.
2006-02-03, 06:46:21 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I agree Laurel's acting is fine, especially since she is being asked to play so out of character, shows her versaility etc and, yes, we all hate Tina now. I mean, of course Bette behaved badly, appalling even, but given her remorse, if Tina was the person she appeared to be in S1, I think she'd have forgiven her ages ago. And if she hadn't, why did she go back? For comfort/security? Hadn't thought she was that shallow. And I hate all the arguing and cursing in front of Angelica. As for who was rejecting who sexually in S1, I hadn't necessarily thought it was Tina. Bette seemed preoccupied with work etc. When she left one evening to go and "kiss [somebody's] arse, I seem to remember Tina saying, "She's lucky". Am not convinced Tina was being sexually rejecting, because she always struck me as the most sexually responsive character on the show. Of course no one is saying they hate Laurel, though - that would make us even sadder fucks than we apparently are!
2006-02-03, 09:40:12 AM
From: windrider
Comments: Bashing characters because you don't like the way they've been written and, even worse, bashing the actors who portray them is petty and bad-mannered, to say the least. Tina didn't *make* Bette have an affair with Candace. And dating Helena while she was separated from Bette is not cheating. I think she knows in her heart that it's over with Bette, that they've done everything they could to save a relationship that can't be saved. I think she uses silence sometimes instead of telling Bette the truth because she doesn't want to hurt her with something they're not ready to face yet. At any rate, none of this is Tina's fault or Bette's fault, or Laurel or Jennifer's fault. This is the story they were written to portray. Like it or not, that's reality and insulting characters and actors won't change it.
2006-02-03, 10:15:48 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: First, I love Laurel Holloman as an brave, interesting indy actress who, long before it was trendy, took on roles that explore our lives. And I would love nothing more than to see Bette and Tina go back to Dan Foxworthy, do some hard work and forgive each other. Maybe decide if they had what it takes, or not, there, but this is a soap opera. That said, try this on for an explanation of why this story line is upsetting. Most of us lesbians are REALLY not happy when someone we know goes back to men. WE HATE IT, when it's someone we're in love with, like Tina. No matter how nice the guy, by the way, no matter how crappy the relationship she left was, or that maybe she was single and really lonely. There are some understandable reasons why we don't like it. I've watched friends go through it and get all kinds of crap from their friends of 20 years. Generally, we don't then abandon our friends because of sexuality issues, or gender issues, because WE LOVE THEM. I still love Tina's original character. The thing is I'm not sure it's in character for her to be onery while this is happening. That bothers me, because I felt her character was fundamentally kind. Just a thought. That said, as a soap, what we are going to get is a whole lot of bad behavior. Which is difficult to take when we are looking at is as this breakthrough representation of lesbians.
2006-02-03, 11:27:38 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Jeez, I hope nobody takes this out on Laurel. Everything she's ever said indicates how proud she was to have a chance to portray an alternative family. I can't imagine this is how she thought that would play out and my guess is this whole storyline tears her up her up as much as it does those of us who had so wanted to see a couple figure out their problems and move forward together. Maybe Laurel isn't a good enough actress to totally overcome an aversion to what they're doing to Tina and to Bette/Tina, but I don't think Hepburn or Meryl Streep or anybody else is good enough to pull that off.
2006-02-03, 12:57:16 PM
From: babybago
Comments: I also agree with this. I am a TiBetter and a HUGE Laurel fan. This season has both she and JB working their best magic to have us all worked up with this storyline. It sucks,to say the least. But we do have to seperate our anger with the character and the actress. I only hope IC has some magic up her sleeve to figure out how to turn this incredibly stupid storyline around...good luck
2006-02-03, 14:51:54 PM
From: dominicana
Comments: I don't buy the thing about Tina getting back at Bette for Candace by wanting to be with a man. She had her own affair wit Helena, had sex with Bette, and then wanted to date Bette. Not only that she told Bette she was not going to stop seeing Helena. This is complicated and not so far from some people's reality. I think Tina is just very confused about her sexuality and wants to explore these feelings. Her distancing form Bette even though she might still love, allows her to explore this and not feel too too guilty. I know it's hard to see Laurel playing this side of Tina, i think she's doing an amazing job. It must have been hard for her too.
2006-02-03, 16:30:13 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Tina is getting more annoying by the minute. I think Ilene has it against her . Fine, Bette cheated on her.. she's human, she couldn't be more sorry. The least Tina could do is listen to her. But not, she goes back to men, she suddenly is straight and her 8 years with Bette didn't mean a thing. First, last and forever??? sure.. as long as you can bring the bacon LOL
2006-02-03, 22:24:10 PM
From: fergz1
Comments: I just want to say that I adore Laurel! She, as an actress, is doing her job superbly. She is making us angry at Tina. I think the character is very confused and has never really forgiven Bette for being unfaithful. I am a die hard tibette fan but if there is not going to be complete forgiveness....they need to move on. I would rather see them happy with other people then to be in this misery! Oh..that is US in misery. JB and LH are beautiful, talented women and I love that they have embraced their roles...wherever they may lead!!!
2006-02-03, 23:13:27 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: It's amazing isn't it, how people all over the world are so enthralled with these characters. The empathy, sympathy and connection of the audience in relation to what seem to be star-crossed lovers at this point is phenomenal. My above naïve wondering and commonplace thoughts on the subject aside, I find it interesting how the opinions of the viewers are so varied. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, and certainly no one piece of dramatic art can be all things to all people. There will be critics and fans, always, and there will be as many different ways of describing what they see as there are members of an audience. The notion that people would criticize the actors personally is ridiculous for reasons already stated by others. Of course this is a matter of opinion, but they're good actors and appear to have been professional throughout. They both also appear to be very committed to the show. They both have done a great job. I think that the struggle between the audience and what's developing among the characters is due at least in part to the writing. It's so very difficult for fans besotted with this on-screen couple, through 2 seasons now, to understand and/or willingly accept where the writers are taking them, because the way that they have been written and portrayed until the end of season 2, whether it was intentional or otherwise, depicted a relationship of 'love', very troubled though it was from the start. Certainly, most people were openly asking whether trouble was looming given the precarious reunion at the end of season 2. However, it's not easy to ask viewers to give up on a powerful love once it has been made believeable as successfully as it was in this case. Not without some creative guidance, character exposition, and conspicuous logic in what is transpiring on screen. In the plot, at times it was one step forward and two steps back…but there was always the one step forward, and this supported a notion of hope in the bond between the two women. The writers created something that has poignant meaning for thousands of people. It's extremely difficult to see them being torn asunder in the face of so many conflicting emotional messages from their history together. Of course, if it were easy for the viewers then it likely would have meant that the dramatic creation/portrayal was unsuccessful. But the likely problem many are struggling with is that what is happening to the couple was not foreseeable...things are happening this season that beg the question of what on earth transpired during the first six months of Angelica's life. The foundation was not carefully laid for what is happening between Bette and Tina now. The 'backstory' or prelude of what Tina is going through is almost non-existent in the storytelling of this groundbreaking series. Or, perhaps I'm just another fan who found a connection to two characters and is saddened that they are being torn apart, and saddened in not seeing their love triumph. Basically, I'm just a sentimental viewer caught up in a fictional episodic tale. If nothing else, it's been thought and emotion provoking. Now I just wish it would make sense. Perhaps the theme is simple enough and explains everything, at least what the theme seems to be- that love isn't enough. OR maybe we're just being prepared for one hell of a reunion.
2006-02-04, 00:20:51 AM
From: FunnyCide
Comments: The problem I have with this story arc is it's suffering from a lack of narrative flow. The idea of Tina Kennard having feelings for men all the sudden has just crow-barred it's way into the Bette and Tina saga. I think the missing 6 months is a HUGE excuse to shove this plot line in and it feels forced. At the end of season 2 Tina and Bette could have gone either way, I would have understood it. But this man thing has just bull dozed its way in. When Tina left Bette, had no income and was dating Helena nonexclusively, the feelings for men should have been hinted to then in order for this story to fall into place now. I don't see these two making up and I fear the future for them and us is to watch heartbreaking, gut wrenching custody battles over Angelica. Sorry, I just don't find that entertaining. At best this story line grates like fingers running down a chalkboard. I look forward to reading what Lone has to say on Bette and Tina in a few more episodes.
2006-02-04, 02:01:57 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: The last two commenters stated the core problem perfectly.
2006-02-04, 03:32:23 AM
From: FunnyCide
Comments: One more thing; making Tina Kennard strait is like taking a member from the Justice League and removing their super powers. What's the point? She is just going to live a life of domestic hetero bliss???
2006-02-04, 07:06:19 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: and how is a straight Tina gonna fit on a lesbian show.Not very well after a legion of fans fell in love with her and Bette as a couple.Season 2 was painful to watch but season 3 is beyond painful and the saddest thing is that is gonna get so bad that is gonna be almost impossible to fix.. then again, it's television, so anything can happen but if Ilene has this crazy idea of breaking up for good the best couple on television, then nothing can stop her. Poor Laurel having to deal with this crappy character now, after all she said she wanted Tibette together.
2006-02-04, 09:12:42 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: well, all of this talk about bette and tina is just stupid...i think that alice is pretty hot lol
2006-02-04, 09:43:32 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: i really want bette and tina to stay forever. So to let as know that in our lives there are still people who can love each other and stay together for a long time until they get old. Bette and Tina is one of them and I hope in this show the writers can see the importance of that.
2006-02-04, 09:50:20 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I just wnat to say this, Bette and Tina forever.I hope they can start a new and leave the past behind.Just in real Life. I hope that the show will let us see that there are couples in Love that can stay forever and Live together until teh rest of their lives just like Bette and Tina.
2006-02-04, 09:57:54 AM
From: wickedfemme
Comments: I just hope Bette and Tina will forget the past and start anew. Their relationship is my inspiration in Life. I hope they will make it in the show that couples in love can really stay and love together until they get old. I really Love bette and tina.
2006-02-04, 13:02:07 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: "With all the shit they have been through so far, does it not seem more realistic that they cannot work it out and eventually go their separate ways?" At the end of season 2 they had a 50/50 chance. Bette was growing, Tina was changing. It could have gone either way. Their problems were not irreconcilable. Bette has a nasty habit of bringing work home with her. Tina was feeling displaced after leaving her job to prepare for pregnancy. Bette was feeling the incredible pressure of being a responsible provider and a revolutionary activist. Tina's feeling the weight of motherhood and its reasonability’s more profoundly then Bette. But these things could all be worked through and would have been an interesting process to witness. With Tina having "man feelings" all of that is just gone; an interesting story untold. P.S. Laurel Holloman is awesome.
2006-02-04, 13:10:34 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Here's what don't get and it pertains to all of season 3. What's so groundbreaking about writing a lesbian drama that ends in tragedy? Lesbian love stories loosing to heterosexuality, death and promiscuity is not groundbreaking at all. It's a played out tired ass theme. I can't belive GLBT's are willing to pay a cable premium for this bowl of shit soup.
2006-02-04, 21:02:16 PM
From: strtgirl1
Comments: I am amazed at all the differnt comments about Bette & Tina. I dont think Ilene realized when she started this show, That bette & Tina would be such a hit with the fans, and that they would be so vocal in letting the powers to be, know about it so strongly. Season1 was really believable on how life really takes us, Season 2, though painful, even though some of us do not want to admit it, took us on a rocky but sure road for all the characters. To come back with Season 3 six months into the future, without any back story, really through me. In the first episode, I actually felt Tina & Bette were trying to reconnect, I thought the Season would progress on us seeing just that. Alice was a little crazy, but believable, come on we have all loved & lost. We can kind of figured what happened with her & Dana. Alice spooked her. But she still loves alice. Shane & Carmen have been right on track, Helena is a little hare to believe, but I like her, I think the problem with us fans, are there are to many spoilers out there. Try as I might not to read them, I read fan fiction, and everyone seems so down, So of course, I gotta know why. Yuk on spolers. I am afraid they may all come true, So, I am going to just hope I can get through this Season, and look forward to Season 4 or not.
2006-02-05, 05:29:19 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: YES,I REMEMBER CANDACE.BUT WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT HER!WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BETTE AND TINA!!I know Bette cheated and she suffered numerous times for it. Tina wasn't such a sweet angel either when Bette needed her she completely shut her off! that made it imposible for Bette to open up.{no wonder why Bette cheated!}Bette paid a big prize for cheating on tina.I KINDA REMEMBER TINA HAVING SEX IN THE POOL WITH HELENA PEABRAIN WHILE POOR BETTE BREAKS APART!!!!!!! TINA IS NOT INNOCENT.WHY DID SHE AGREE TO DATE BETTE IN THE 1ST PLACE? Instead of making her relationship work again like it used to,she's obsessing about money and lashing out on bette every time she can!If she knows that cheating is hurtful and painful why does she cheat on bette?That's not innocent to me!Bette tries because she still loves Tina with all her heart and she tries for Angelica too!But Tina, SHE DOEN"T EVEN CARE,BUT SHE"S GOING TO REGRET LEAVING BETTE FOR A FUGLY GUY THEN SHE"S GONNA FEEL SORRY!
2006-02-05, 15:49:20 PM
From: Fa6Fa6
Comments: The whole thing with Tina this season doesn't have much to do with Bette, many people seem to focus on Tina's behaviours this season only becuz all they see on their screens is poor Bette.. I agree Bette does break my heart this season but yet Tina is lost, confused and unhappy which is making Bette go through all of this with her.. I think Tina is somehow over Candace but not over the idea that their relationship is a fvcked up one and has been fvcked up since the pilot episode.. Unlike many ppl who think it was Tina who pushed Bette to sleep with Candace I think the break up was inventiable, whether Bette cheated or not, the cheating was an act of free well and Alice called Bette on that, IMO the cheating was the point of finally admiting that things are not going as good as they both tried to make their selves believe, it was more of a wake up call.. The love was still there and they like many other couples thought about giving it another shot, but as we see this season, this relationship was over with the break up, Bette and Tina simply don't know how to be in a relationship TOGETHER, and just in their previous relationship, LOVE is not enough for them to make it work.. And the whole talk about Laurel's acting, all I have to say is that she must be doing a great job with the character if people are actually feeling annoyed with her like they are supposed to be.. Kudos to Laurel..
2006-02-05, 17:34:41 PM
From: gte103j
Comments: I totally agree with fa6Fa6. I think too many of the viewers can't seemed to seperate Tina as an individual from bette and tina the couple. I think that Tina is genuinely unhappy and confused about what she wants in life and where she is in life. Over the last two years she has been through a lot of changes without getting time to really process everything. I think it is all coming to a head now and she is reeling from it. I also think its too simple to say she is punishing Bette for Cnadance. I think she has an internal struggle going on; part of her wants to mkae it work with Bette because of Angelica and they have a life together for the past 8 years, the other part of her just wants out. So what you get is Tina pushing Bette away sometimes and other times pulling her back. That is not out of character, that is just another side of a 3 dimensional character. Like somone pointed out earlier, Bette and Tina's reunion last season just reeked of Tina wanting to get back together so that they could be a family. She said as much in that scene, so even though she may have forgiven Bette for Candace it doesn't mean she thought all of their major problems were resolved, and give IC some credit, at no point last season did she make it seem that Bette and Tina's problems were resolved and that they were going to live happily ever after. Yes the season ended with them together for the birth of their baby which is a joyous occassion, but that was it. Like I said before, getting back together just for the sake of the baby was a bad reason and I think Tina realizes it.
2006-02-05, 20:33:48 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I've been on 4 different boards and I don't see anyone bashing Holloman. I do see valid complaints about Ilene writing Bette and Tina's story in this direction. I've never agreed with Fa6 analysis of Bette and Tina. I think at the end of season 2 Bette and Tina could have gone either way. They have the same problems long term couples face when struggling with longevity and could have seen them not working things out and moving on as easily as I could see them growing together again. What I can't get an organic feel for is Tina's sudden feelings for men. I think if it had been intended for Tina Kennard to go in this direction, this would have been forshadowed to some degree in season two when Tina was dating non exclusively. Even the slightest flirtation with a bag boy at a grocery store would have made some atempt at fluidity in Tina's current dilema. Right now I see Tina completely not intrested in Bette and only staying with her because as she said "sometimes people stay with the wrong person because they don't want to see alone." Tina is just biding time 'till she finds a man and then she'll finally move on. I think that's why I don't recognize this version of Tina. She may have moved in at the end of season 2 "for the baby" but she isn't stayin around in season 3 for anyone but herself..and that's just not Tina. Where's the backstory that would have made an attempt a narrative flow to Tina's repressed "Man Feelings"
2006-02-05, 20:44:50 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I just want to say that Laurel is doing a great job at her job. However, Ilene has totally dropped the ball on this one and I'm not going to support this flimsy attempt at writing weak drama and boasting it's groundbreaking. Season one was groundbreaking. The pilot promised a great deal and the following seasons have failed to live up to that. Writing Bette and Tina in the direction they are headed is dramatic but it's not even close to being creative or original. I agree with most when they say the "man feelings" storyline feels forced and an easy way to cop out. Seriously there must be a frickin template for this plot outline. Just insert Laruel Holloman and Jennifer Beals and your repeating what every other lesbian storyline in film and televison has historicaly done.
2006-02-05, 21:38:12 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Drama is one thing, but complete character reversal without any explanation or leading up to is just laziness on the writers' part. Even with the storyline in season 3, the writers' could have at least shown respect for the B&T's characters in their troubled time instead of making then into one-sided plot devices. Tina has always been my favorite character, with Bette a close second, and I can't think of the l word ending its run without them finally reconciling. If I don't have that little glimmer of hope or delusional wish, I seriously couldn't watch the show anymore.
2006-02-05, 23:16:42 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Is gone...It doesn't seem to matter which character, which story, whatever, we have nothing to look forward to, to be hopeful for...Tina doesn't want Bette, Dana is going to die, Alice is hiding her pain with this lunatic, Shane...Shane the one we had counted on straighting up with Carmen...threw it in the toilet for a fuck...As if our lives aren't hard enough, day in and day out, admitting, not admitting, so we take solace in a show that we can relate to, and they have to dramatize everything and make it so we can not believe in anything normal and substantial...As if things are not hard enough... All we need is a little normalness to look to, to make us feel a little less abnomal. We were getting there until this episode.
2006-02-06, 00:51:38 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: hmmm...maybe Bette should get a sex change too. That would be DRAMTIC and PROVOCATIVE...what would Jennifer B look like as a man?
2006-02-06, 01:05:10 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Here's my psychobabble theory on the good thing about the "missing 6 months" between Season 2 and 3:The Bette and Tina story is one that very accurately details the laborious consequences of betrayal. The six months that lapsed bewtten Season 2's end and Season 3's beginning is implicit. In and of itself, that implicity is loaded. When a relationship includes some level of betrayal, there is an immeasurable amount of emotional processing that is unfolding, that we generally (as humans) cannot (or choose not to)identify or register. It is "under the radar" emotional shutting down. The lack of explanation of what happened in the 6 months prior to Season 3's opener is - to me - a strong representation of the significant intrapsychological conflict (the psychological tug-of-war of wants vs needs) that people experience when they are 1) hurt, 2) want to forgive, but are 3) afraid to "let go" and experience grief/loss.As a side note, grief and loss are quite often the secondary emotions that motivate us to choose to pursue relationships that are lop-sided in the first instance (ie. Tina the submissive, Bette the dominant). It's an unconsciously deliberate choice because it is a SAFE option. That is: "I am afraid to get hurt, but if I get into a relationship with someone who is just as afraid as I am, then neither one of us will actually confront this fear. We'll just cruise along".Until one of these people becomes too afraid of the comfort, which is exponentially linked to vulnerability: increased closeness to someone = increased emotional vulnerability = increased risk of getting hurt/experiencing loss). The desire to "resolve" a relationship after betrayal can be from a desire to want the relationship to work, but WHY do we want the relatioship to work? For love, for comfort, for fear of loss/grief?Given Tina's "seduction" to being in a relationship with a woman, she seems to be realistically questionning her motives. Perhaps not in an ideal way, but in a HUMAN way: wanting to exercise her desire to be with Bette, but instead allowing her fear of loss to get the better of her rationale.And that's the end of my schpeel :)
2006-02-06, 03:56:15 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: LOOK!!! Why dont ALL of you just let those women do what they love best and that's acting PERIOD!! Stop basing your real lives on theirs bc just like someone else just stated....basically they ALL arent GAY/LESBIAN...so with that being said. WHADAFUKEVA!!....LEAVE TINA ALONE MANYE!!..SMH dass muh gurl righ there!!
2006-02-06, 06:02:40 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I completely agree. Laurel Holloman is a fantastic actor, she has created a character that has us all glued to the screen. Even now, whilst Bette and Tina are not getting on they still manage to captulate the chemistry and depth of their relationship. If a guy did to a woman what Bette did to Tina, the woman may often turn to another women...in a gay relationship that could also happen with a man. Tina being with a guy just points out her damaged self confidence. I hope it doesnt last because if anything, Bette and Tina really do sum up the togetherness women can have. I for one have faith in the writers and their ability in exercising all options... surely they must highlight that life is not always fairytale like. Still...B & T have what it takes to work through their problems and I have every faith that they will be happy in the end...happy together. They are soul mates after all!!
2006-02-06, 12:28:48 PM
From: dharma bum
Comments: Outside the show- i love Laurel and I love Jennifer they are amazing actors and seem to be amazing people as well- now that that's out of the way. I said last season that if Bette and Tina broke up again i couldn't watch the show anymore because it was just to painful but now i think it would be less painful if they did break up because it's so hard to watch them together. For Bette to say "I'll miss you" and Tina says nothing...OUCH! They're so distant and cold they seem like they barely know each other anymore and it's hard to watch after the heat of season 1. Also let me say in Tina's defense i had an ex who always wanted to have an important heart to heart right as i was trying to go to sleep and it was SO ANNOYING!
2006-02-06, 17:55:02 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: I read the psychological stuff in the recent comment. it's interesting and I see some of the points being made. One thing I'm not clear on is in the following quote- "Given Tina's "seduction" to being in a relationship with a woman, she seems to be realistically questionning her motives. Perhaps not in an ideal way, but in a HUMAN way: wanting to exercise her desire to be with Bette, but instead allowing her fear of loss to get the better of her rationale." Maybe I'm just getting confused with the wording, but can the commenter explain this a bit? What is Tina afraid to "let go" of? Are you saying that she's venturing into a relationship with a man because she's thinks it won't work? Interesting comments, but I'm a little slow today so help me out if you can. I think describing the missing 6 months as implicit etc., and that there's a lot of processing, is a good point. I wonder though...the cheating happened about 7 months or so prior and Bette went through an obstacle course to get back to Tina. The whole season went by, mysteriously without them resolving it/discussing it (because it's a tv show I guess). I don't know if the missing 6 months is for natural reasons- I still think it's dramatically ineffective. Whatever emotional stuff she's processing in the first few episodes might very well be what you describe. However, it's being presented in a far too ambiguous way I think and then suddenly it's revealed that she's conflicted about attraction to men, which as you say is not unbelievable...it's just not quite making sense though given the process by which it's being told in the story. It's the storytelling that's troublesome. Anyway, I've babbled too much as it is.
2006-02-06, 20:26:39 PM
From: freudianslip_00
Comments: (I'm the one who left the psychobabble comment...). To answer the earlier question of "what is Tina afraid to let go of?":My opinion: She's afraid to let go of the comfort and safety of being in a relationship where she now has the illusion of control. Remember the episodes with Jane Lynch as the civil rights lawyer handling Tina's divorce enquiries? Tina was talked through the effectiveness of being assetive and "in control". And while the results of this dynamic resulted in some very questionnable and unethical motives, Tina may have walked away with some sense of "needing to be in charge". From where I sit, one of two things is happening:1. Tina probably has lost the attraction to Bette as someone to look after her, because she perhaps has realised that she doens't need anyone to look after her (Side note: Bette really needs to pursue more proactive options to improve their relaitonship; reading books on meditation may improve your insight and breathing techniques, but what good is that if you can't translate those insights into a meaningful and honest existance with yourself, let alone your partner?) , or2. (I'm finally going to answer your quesiton!!): Tina does not want to let go of a relationship where she now feels she is "in control", and therefore "if I'm in control I can't get hurt (or I will see it coming so it won't hurt as much)".When someone is under the illusion of being "in control" of a situation where they don't think they will get hurt, the concept of self-sabotage becomes very important. Self-sabotage is a process or act that leads to harm, intentionally. It is intentional, but mostly unconscious. The purpose of self-sabotage is so that people can relieve themselves of any accountability for the loss of a relationship (or a "failed expereince"), and/or minimise the level of hurt to oneself by looking back and saying "well, it never was going to work anyway, cos [someone else] stuffed it up" (as opposed to looking at my own behaviours, and how I may have contributed to the outcome of a loss/grief and a lost relationship). Going with some of the other posts on this topic, I would agree that Tina is not entirely the innocent party here. There is no such thing as a relationship breakdown resulting from the actions of one person. One person's actions may be more overt, but (at least) TWO people are contributing to the maladaptive functioning. So, Tina is off exploring her feelings for someone else, because she now thinks she can determine the future of this relaitonship. With this control, comes the danger of behaving in ways that are not intended to improve the self, but rather damage the self. But she will not be conscious of that. All she will be conscious of is "I don't want to get hurt again, and in this relationship, because Bette now needs me, I won't get hurt". Couple that with Tina's appearance of losing an attraction to Bette, and she is now more open to exploring other options WITHOUT losing the saftey of being in a position of control.I don't even know if my answer makes any sense, but feel free to leave your 2cents. As a side note: I'm loving Season 3. I think the characters are developing with such realism. It's hard to capture the complexity of human behaviour, but I really do feel that "The L Word" does an incredible job in giving us the simplified version of human (not just lesbian) behaviour.
2006-02-06, 21:35:26 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Thanks freudianslip_00. Here's my 1.5 cents. Yes, I think that some of the scenes are well done, and there's quite a bit of intensity so far in the episodes. The actors are also quite good. With respect to the B&T story- B&T are not just breaking up…they're being torn apart and it's a largely one-sided affair - Tina isn't letting her “in”, so to speak, despite Bette's efforts. And Bette does seem to be more conscientious this season. She seems to be trying to make contact and is turned painfully away. Mind you, perhaps you're right and she's not doing enough and once again engaging in her own one-sided pursuit. Tina does seem to be deciding the course of the relationship somewhat unilaterally. As far as how the story is being told, I'm still wondering whether the lack of explanation/exposition as far as Tina is concerned has achieved a dramatically viable depiction of human behaviour. In other words, it still all seems rather sudden and a little too mysterious. It's apparent to the viewers in the first few episodes that Tina is going through something, but only because we mostly see her a bit frazzled and angry/repulsed by Bette. She is very harsh to Bette, without an explanation of any sort and in stark contrast to last season. Then, suddenly, she's attracted to men. Perhaps that new attraction to men is just a symptom of the explanation that you provided or it was merely masked for 7 years while she was with Bette…buried deep down etc. I don't know. Bette's distancing in season 1 did not exactly happen with a lot of explanation either, but it appeared more gradual and you clearly saw her grappling with something and Tina was distancing as well. I think I have a better understanding of your self-described "psychobabble comment"…either that or I must go out and get “Freud for Dummies.” I'm trying to grapple with the motivation of this self-sabotage and the ultimate goal. Following your analysis- were Bette's words to Foxworthy were more prophetic than we realized- ie “she doesn't need me anymore”…so, since Tina realizes she needs no one, including Bette, and since she's realizing that she was with her for the wrong reasons (is that what she's realizing?)….it's time to move on? What does Tina really want? So…they were never really 'in love'? You say “because she now thinks she can determine the future of this relaitonship.”…does she want to determine the future of the relationship/be in control, or does she simply, in her heart of hearts, just want to end it without being the primary/overt instigator of that end? Ok ok ok…no yelling….no swearing…. 'Freud for Dummies'…I'll go out and buy one…soon! Thanks for your explanatory comment.
2006-02-08, 10:21:50 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: i love bette and tina together its has been pretty hard to watch them lately seems hopeless that they will ever be happy again it seems like a great love is being destroyed and i wont stick around and watch the show if it is they are the reason that i love the show and watch faithfully
2006-02-08, 19:14:51 PM
From: Anonymous
Comments: ok..tina and bette are the only reason why i honestly watch the show. I adore laurel holloman, i think she's a great, lovely,beautiful actress. I just feel that bette is the only woman that tina has ever loved, and bette has broken her heart, or keeps breaking her heart. So what is she to do when the only woman she has ever loved hurts her, go back to men. I never realy believed that tina was fully gay, cus she was with a man at an age where she should've really been aware of her sexuality. Bette( jennifer Beals) is abosolutely gorgeous, talented, smart,extremely loving at times, heck i'm in love with her, and i'm straight. But Tina has no right to treat bette like the way she's been doing.IIene chaiken is making abig mistake because EVERYONE WANTS BETTE AND TINA TOGETHER, they make the show, hell the are the show, her breaking them up is ruining it for me and everyone else watching. And for that Iiene sucks. Yea bette's being nicer, but what will hapen when she starts working again? None the less, lets get bette and tina together agian, let them work things out if possible. Tina needs to confront her true demons, and it's not men, it's her feeling. The show's not flowing rights, cus they're both so damn sad.
2006-02-09, 13:54:59 PM
From: Trolle
Comments: I totally agree with you on so many points and yes we should cut Tina some slack - but they way those two are heade....wow it is down the drain if they don´t start to talk about everything. But comunication is a big key, so don´t forget that :O)
2006-02-10, 09:39:21 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: Sincerely, i'm all for tina and Helena satyin together right now, cause i thought them more exciting.. And when they've had broken up -season 2, i felt Helena's feelin about Tina.. On the other hand the Rachel's performance is great, sexy!!!
2006-02-11, 00:18:19 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: ilene, tina y bett tienen que seguir juntas y mejorar la relacion porque sino el programa no va a funcionar, el raiting va a bajar
2006-02-11, 00:20:19 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: ilene, bett y tina juntas de nuevo, sin peleas, definitivamente la 2da temporada a pesar de la separacion de bettina fue mejor que esta.
2006-02-11, 00:25:38 AM
From: Anonymous
Comments: si alguien sabe como hacer llegar las criticas a ilene chaiken, esta cometiendo un error al dañar a estos 2 personajes, tina y bette. la relacion debe mejorar desde todo punto de vista, incluyendo el sexual
2006-02-11, 20:33:42 PM
From: sandra69
Comments: I JUST MISS THE TREMENDOUS CHEMISRTY BETWEEN THESE TWO.PLEASE IC GIVE US A DREAM SCENE OR SOMETING OF THESE TWO BEING LOVING AGAIN.
2006-02-12, 00:37:50 AM
From: loving_TLW
Comments: I just want to say how incredibly dissappointed I am with the Bette and Tina's storyline. Those two were THE hook that drew me in. Made me sign up for Showtime. I agree the writers did a terrible job preparting the audience for it. What pushes me over the edge and will make me stop supporting the show (bye, bye Showtime subscription) is the fact that IC is no better than the all the rest of TV/film in breaking away from the same stereotypical portrayals we've had to accept all along. Tina leaving Bette for a man??? Thanks IC. You really expect us to applaud you for that? You think we will sit through another year of more B&T angst?? IC and co. are doing a fine job of completely destoying the couple beyond repair. We know that child custody battles happen. It doesn't mean we want to see it played out in all its ugly, bitter madness. Especially for two characters we adored.Groundbreaking would have been to actually portray a lesbian LTR for the first time on TV. When will the lesbian community finally get producers/writers that don't sell us out for drama's sake? There were so many other stories that could have been told that preserved their LTR. Equally compelling and worthwhile. Tina leaving for a man is a betrayal by the TLW creative team. A betrayal of trust the audience extended to you when you presented B&T as a LTR.
2006-02-12, 17:50:37 PM
From: sandra69
Comments: IVE GOT TO BELIEVE THAT THEY WILL BE BACK TOGETHER OR ID CANCEL MY SHOWTIME TODAY.CAN YOU HEAR US IC?
2006-02-13, 09:54:55 AM
From: loveJB
Comments: yeah...i think Tina should break up with Bette...ASAP...let Bette goes...leave Bette alone...let Bette move on....let Bette get someone who really can make her happier.
2006-02-13, 11:11:16 AM
From: angeldaybreak
Comments: I think the break between Bette and Tina was set up from the beginning. Season One's Pilot included a discussion on infidelity and how Bette and Tina seemed to have the storybook relationship. You're right...bashing the actress because of her character is ridiculous. On the subject of the whole Bette/Tina storyline, I think that people are capable of overcoming enormous odds. The question of realism is a big one, though, because if the storyline isn't handled the right way...any outcome will seem farfetched. I don't think all is lost for Bette and Tina, but I think there are issues far more reaching than infidelity at play here. Deal with those, and perhaps Bette and Tina will be able to get back to being the couple with the enviable longevity they once had.
2006-02-15, 03:28:21 AM
From: GoPhish
Comments: I had the pleasure of meeting Ilene at the Curve Mag party this year. If I had know she was going to do this with Tina, I would have given her an ear full. This is what I would have told her...Tina has been written from the third person perspective this season. There has been nothing to draw us into the layers of her charecter...nothing to bring us into what she is going through. She is purposefully written to be a bitch. I hate it. I think it's a shitty way to approach the subject of Tina's feelings for men. When Bette was a big ol' be-otch we were still drawn into her process that led her to her affair. We knew Bette from a first person perspective. We knew how out of charecter it was for Bette to do what she did and it was engaging. With Tina, we don't even recognize her at all. I'm very dissapointed in the lack of quality this storyline has been developed with this season.
2006-02-21, 06:06:34 AM
From: mylittlesecret
Comments: first and foremost, anyone who would dare bash an actress for the character she is playing is an idiot and doesn't even deserve the few lines i've just written on the matter.2) totally in agreement with the editor about the staying together thing, only if it's believable. thus, we all need to acknowledge that our issue this season is not with the actresses, it's with the storylines. unforgivable gaps is time (6 months? gimme a break), unbelievable character changes (ie, helena) and the travesty that is Bette and Tina. as the uber-lez relationship stands (just barely) right now, they need to break-up. their not happy, and more importantly, i'm not happy being tortured with their scenes.tina never should have gone back to Bette, who was clearly a Type A narcissist who wanted a cookie-cutter life, complete with a Stepford Wife and a kid. Though the actresses portrayed the couple beautifully, it is unrealistic for the relationship to continue.also, Tina had every right to screw Helena. Hello, she and Bette were broken up! bette's character would be more believable as a Shane-type.Ilene, my dear, you were golden until this season. melodramatic is not the same as groundbreaking. you don't have to shock and disgust the audience in order for us to love you. we already do. so please, for your career's sake and showtime's ratings sake, please fix this for next season.ps, has anyone yet to acknowledge that Dana, the comic relief, is being killed? SLOWLY. why does Ilene hate Dana? if the actress had to leave, there are simply better ways to have her character bow out.Shame on you, Ilene. Shame.
2006-02-22, 15:32:45 PM
From: sexy apples
Comments: Well first off I know everyone can understand a actress from a real person but... let's not forget it is clearly impossible to totally act aother wat tina may really be like that in real life but who cares anyway everyone is entilted to his or her opinions me personally i do not like the charater of tina that is how i feel people may or may not disagree anyways i love bette and so what she cheated true she was wrong but that is reality come so what is th epoint so now that bette has lost her job tina is going to treat her like shit no!!! not happening i think after helena they are even but tina wanted men so her attitude changed.i thought these sites where for people to express them selves with out getting attacked.I once heard an acterss or actor u hate for his or her role must be a great actor or actress and that may be true.Candance was hot and we all know it so was helena but in this season they all seem to be friends so i am shocked about what is going to happen next.i never want to hurt anyone that is not my goal but i think i should be entitled to that without reservation or the feeling of being called out.I thought I was entitled to express how I feel or felt about the way the show was going.And I really am not happy about what the season is doing with shane she is a player so let her be and stop making her into this girly girl.And why is Carmen so into jenny's and max's buiness please who house is that thank you...
2006-02-22, 15:47:20 PM
From: sexy apples
Comments: Ok I reallt had a chance to read some other peoples responses some i agree with and some so so i guess but like i said before bette was the soul bread winner in the begining and tina chilled out and then got a little something of a job but anyways tina fucked helena bad idea well maybe not be atleast tina did not know candance and bette was not flaunting her around like tina shit everywhere she looked there went helena and tina why though weren't they bette's friends first anyways that is t.v.but tina is really taking it to far and WHY IS KIT FUCKING THE MANNY WHY?? omg r u serious she is going thruogh the change of life right omg..ok so why r thry killing off dana and why did she push laura away i am hurt about that so bad so r alice and dana suppose to rekindle damn!! wasn't alice stalking them please have mercy.the only thing interesting on the l word now is sexy ass max reality t.v baby!!! shane is going down and i lovvvveeeeeeeee shane to death they time she laid sherrie down that is my shane bring her back out please...
2006-03-02, 14:19:17 PM
From: slipperynipple
Comments: I am sorry but why was this written in the first place? Is it a plea to viewers to stop trashing the character or the actress? Trashing the actress is wrong, trashing the character whether it's Bette Tina or anyone else is apart of working out and dealing with with what going on on the show. Some fans find it very helpful others just do it the stir the pot. Any which way I can't imagine that anyone is getting hurt when a character gets trashed; it's fictional has no feelings and if the actors playing these parts find it offensive then they need not be in the acting business. That's why I love Jennifer Beals when she leaves the set she leaves it all behind and that's the way it should be. I for one will continue to call the character on the crap she is doing this season and I hope others will do the same.
2006-03-03, 05:18:07 AM
From: lauraloveslife2
Comments: 2006-03-03, 05:15:38 AMFrom: lauraloveslife2 Comments: MESSAGE FOR FREUDIANSLIP_00sorry to barge in like this, without even reading the postings decently, but in europe we're still deprived of season three. however, if freudianslip_00 is who i think it is (who else would write: (I'm the one who left the psychobabble comment...) ) then please mail me, or pm me... i've been wondering how you are. if you lost my mail adress, leave me a message here, and i'll find you. and as for bette and tina... can't wait for season three to begin, but i must say, after all that happened between these two last season, i'm not too sure things will ever work out between them again... not for real anyway... hush... don't tell me yet. (same for shane and carmen, i hope for the best, but fear the worst) xg
2006-03-04, 21:00:17 PM
From: Imlovinit
Comments: Ok i have watched the L word since it first aired in Australia and have been a fan ever since...The story of Bette and Tina has captured my heart and soul from the very beging because they have been realistic from the start. (not saying the others havent been!)My heart races everytime they come across another battle field to conquer... I find that the L word overall has gotten more dramatic as the seasons go on.... And as a fan I find it hard to watch at times, but never in my right mind would i trash the actual actress who portrays to my degree a diverse and complicated fictional character, trying to find the happy medium with her partner as well as her surrounding life-style.In all honesty i believe that tina should be acting a little differently, yet i'm not the director so yeah.. But i can understand tina's pushing away. She has been hurt a lot... yet she is still kinda trying to connect. I think in some form that she wishes that she could some how reach out and try to heal her wounds as well as Bettes. Bette has lost all self confidence because of her job loss as well as her father and partially tina too. Money was a minority problem when bette was working, yet they now have a child. But remember that tina intitiated the dating of Bette at the end of S2 and wanted to move in and have a real family...
|
|
|
|
|
